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JustinKase Safety Device

Everything that would not belong anywhere else.
 

Mark 22 Feb 18, 03:02Post
Invented and manufactured ten miles from me. Secures business and school doors.


http://www.kare11.com/article/news/stud ... -520840852

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ANCFlyer (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 22 Feb 18, 11:30Post
I've seen these before, some people even have them in their homes.

I think every school should have them for every classroom.
Armor. M60A1, M60A3, M1, M1A1, Master Gunner, CSM - Best Job I Ever Had
Click Click D'oh (Photo Quality Screener & Founding Member) 23 Feb 18, 16:23Post
Stuff like this is part of the problem... the mindset for dealing with these situations. As long as they are teaching the active shooter response of locking doors and sheltering in place, things will continue to get worse. Bullets go through walls. The shooter knows the classrooms are full.

Most places teaching active shooter response have moved beyond what schools are teaching. Rules of active shooter response: 1) people are going to die. 2) The only way to minimize how many people are going to die is to stop the shooter as fast as possible. The best way to do that is to train immediate mob response. It's real hard to shoot people when twenty people are sitting on your chest.

Locking the door is actually counterproductive because it just gives the shooter more unhindered time to do his work.
We sleep peacefully in our beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf
ANCFlyer (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 23 Feb 18, 17:27Post
Click Click D'oh wrote:Stuff like this is part of the problem... the mindset for dealing with these situations. As long as they are teaching the active shooter response of locking doors and sheltering in place, things will continue to get worse. Bullets go through walls. The shooter knows the classrooms are full.

Most places teaching active shooter response have moved beyond what schools are teaching. Rules of active shooter response: 1) people are going to die. 2) The only way to minimize how many people are going to die is to stop the shooter as fast as possible. The best way to do that is to train immediate mob response. It's real hard to shoot people when twenty people are sitting on your chest.

Locking the door is actually counterproductive because it just gives the shooter more unhindered time to do his work.


Can't say I disagree with most of this.

Just wish the Deputy Sheriff in Broward County had done his job. He had the opportunity.
Armor. M60A1, M60A3, M1, M1A1, Master Gunner, CSM - Best Job I Ever Had
Boris (Founding Member) 23 Feb 18, 17:52Post
That thing looks pretty easy to use.

What's to stop a potential shooter from using it to lock himself and a room full of people inside and nobody outside can get in to help???

It's fine if the bad guy is outside, but not so much if he's inside.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers...
DXing 23 Feb 18, 18:30Post
Click Click D'oh wrote:Stuff like this is part of the problem... the mindset for dealing with these situations. As long as they are teaching the active shooter response of locking doors and sheltering in place, things will continue to get worse. Bullets go through walls. The shooter knows the classrooms are full.

Most places teaching active shooter response have moved beyond what schools are teaching. Rules of active shooter response: 1) people are going to die. 2) The only way to minimize how many people are going to die is to stop the shooter as fast as possible. The best way to do that is to train immediate mob response. It's real hard to shoot people when twenty people are sitting on your chest.

Locking the door is actually counterproductive because it just gives the shooter more unhindered time to do his work.


Exactly what type of firearm would a shooter use to breach that device? I understand if you are in the open, say the cafeteria, that rushing the shooter while throwing anything handy at him to disrupt his aim is a valid principle, but if you can barricade yourself in a room with a device of this type, how is that throwing the advantage to the shooter? He or she knows that time is working against them. Better to move on to an easier target.

Boris wrote:That thing looks pretty easy to use.

What's to stop a potential shooter from using it to lock himself and a room full of people inside and nobody outside can get in to help???

It's fine if the bad guy is outside, but not so much if he's inside.


At that point Click's plan falls into place. Everyone needs to rush the shooter. Yes, some are going to be killed or wounded but the alternative is to get picked off one by one which is what happens when students or customers try to hide under tables or in bathroom stalls.


I think it's a good, cheap, deterrent type insurance policy. I hope the young mans family is able to develop the business after he enters the service and he exits a wealthy young man.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
ShyFlyer (Founding Member) 23 Feb 18, 20:27Post
Click Click D'oh wrote:Stuff like this is part of the problem... the mindset for dealing with these situations.

Well, you see, that's why you buy a bunch of those "Gun Free Zone" signs to go along with it. #heavysarcasm


Seriously though, only a trained and armed security team can effectively counter an active threat.
The Original Peruvian Outlaw ©
Allstarflyer (Database Editor & Founding Member) 24 Feb 18, 01:10Post
ShyFlyer wrote:Seriously though, only a trained and armed security team can effectively counter an active threat.

Trained, armed - and willing

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics ... index.html

three other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.


Encouragement to avoid Broward County.
ShyFlyer (Founding Member) 24 Feb 18, 01:37Post
On the surface, troubling indeed. However, I'm with holding judgement on the Sheriffs Deputies until I know more about their training and department policy regarding active shooter threats. The Deputies may, or may not, have acted in accordance to their training and department policy.


In the interests of clarification, when I speak of a "trained and armed security team" I'm speaking of a team assigned to a particular campus with the duty to detect and deter threats and summon additional resources.
The Original Peruvian Outlaw ©
Allstarflyer (Database Editor & Founding Member) 24 Feb 18, 01:59Post
ShyFlyer wrote:On the surface, troubling indeed. However, I'm with holding judgement on the Sheriffs Deputies until I know more about their training and department policy regarding active shooter threats. The Deputies may, or may not, have acted in accordance to their training and department policy.

Correct and thanks - this is just a view of the surface, not sure what yet they have to say further about departmental policy and the interactions between Coral Springs and Broward County departments during that time. Didn't sound good, though, from reports of the Coral Springs side of it.

But yeah, wait and see.
Click Click D'oh (Photo Quality Screener & Founding Member) 24 Feb 18, 06:02Post
DXing wrote:Exactly what type of firearm would a shooter use to breach that device?


You don't need to defeat the device. Just walk down the hall putting rounds through the walls about 2 1/2 feet above the deck.
We sleep peacefully in our beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf
ShanwickOceanic (netAirspace FAA) 24 Feb 18, 08:12Post
Click Click D'oh wrote:You don't need to defeat the device. Just walk down the hall putting rounds through the walls about 2 1/2 feet above the deck.

...not wasting those rounds on the rooms where you don't see the ends of this device poking out from under the door.
Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast:
For it is the number of a man; and its number is One hundred threescore and twelve.
DXing 24 Feb 18, 16:46Post
Click Click D'oh wrote:
DXing wrote:Exactly what type of firearm would a shooter use to breach that device?


You don't need to defeat the device. Just walk down the hall putting rounds through the walls about 2 1/2 feet above the deck.


Most schools I have ever been in have cinder block construction on interior hallways for fire safety. A 9mm or even hi power rifle round is going to dissipate a lot of energy just punching through that. I hope that as elastic as kids are, they can get lower than 2.5 feet to the ground. The shooter would not be able to see the target, be unable to get to the target, and know time was their enemy. Better to move on to an easier target.

For those rooms built in option areas (where the walls can be moved to provide the size space needed on demand) your theory holds up, the device would be rather worthless since the moveable wall is light and thin. In those rooms this device would be a waste of time and money. Fight or flight are your only two options.


On a different note, I can't describe the contempt I have for the officer who patiently waited outside while shooting was still happening. As the University of Texas clock tower, Navy Yard shooting, and Orland Pulse shooting showed, you need to advance to contact as soon as possible. If you have a radio you have communications and can coordinate your movements with a command. Waiting outside is simply not an option in these situations. I would rather enter and confront the shooter and then be ostracized afterward for not following policy than have to live with myself knowing I had not done all that I could to save lives.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
miamiair (netAirspace FAA) 25 Feb 18, 00:26Post
Officers, plural. Now it is the school resource officerplus three BSO deputies. Every school I have seen down here, all the walls are CBS. Even the doors are solid for fire rating.
And let's get one thing straight. There's a big difference between a pilot and an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love with flight. — E. B. Jeppesen
Click Click D'oh (Photo Quality Screener & Founding Member) 25 Feb 18, 01:00Post
DXing wrote:Most schools I have ever been in have cinder block construction on interior hallways for fire safety. A 9mm or even hi power rifle round is going to dissipate a lot of energy just punching through that.


A single hit to a block? Oh sure, it's mostly fine. Multiple hits? No bueno. Cinder block is actually worse than most other building materials when dealing with multiple strikes. It comes apart very quickly under multiple strikes and completely loses all structural integrity very quickly. That is assuming when you talk about a high powered rifle you mean something shooting .223. 7.62x39 goes clean through and 7.62x51 doesn't even care about cinder block. Someone mag dumping an AR while walking down the hallway will chew through cinder block walls like they aren't even there. Cinder block is only an impediment to rifles if you don't know to double tap.

DXing wrote:I hope that as elastic as kids are, they can get lower than 2.5 feet to the ground.


Can they? Yes. Are they being trained to? No. They are being taught to sit on the floor.
We sleep peacefully in our beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf
DXing 25 Feb 18, 02:27Post
You are assuming steel reinforcing rods are not in the cinderblock. Most modern construction will have that feature. You also seem to be assuming the weapon will be fully automatic. Or that the shooter has the skill to hold the weapon on target while walking. Most of these shootings see many more rounds fired than people killed or wounded. Hitting a target twice in the same spot would probably be a mean feat for them standing still.

Why would a shooter waste time on a hardened target? Time is their worst enemy. They all appear to realize that much. It appears in most of these cases the shooter continues to move towards, or reverse course to, the easiest targets. I have yet to read of one stopping to break into a room, and yet have seen several stories where the victims who managed to lock themselves in a classroom have escaped unharmed. The shooter didn't even think to shoot out the lock.

They may be being trained to sit on the floor, but if rounds are making it into their vicinity human nature will tell them to get as flat as they can.

This device is cheap, and even more importantly, simple to use. In a moment of panic it would not be hard to install. Well worth the price IMO.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
captoveur 09 Apr 18, 21:55Post
Current active shooter response training seems centered around making great targets rather than creating a difficult environment to cause mayhem.

When face with certain death or possible death possible is the better option.. Don't cower in a corner. Make the guy's life difficult.
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